Comments on: Millennials and the Danger of Being Smart http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179 \"Let\'s Eat That Big Fish!\" Sat, 07 Aug 2010 15:56:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ashley http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18065 Ashley Mon, 14 Dec 2009 05:18:49 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18065 @<a href="#comment-18064" rel="nofollow">Ed</a>: Passion is a good point. I can confidently say, "When I'm working on things I am passionate about, I don't think about it, I just do it." I am still figuring out my perfect job. However, while passion may cover what I'll ultimately be an expert on, it doesn't cover my lack of motivation to do the things I find uninteresting but need to do. That's what I need to work on. @Ed:
Passion is a good point. I can confidently say, “When I’m working on things I am passionate about, I don’t think about it, I just do it.” I am still figuring out my perfect job. However, while passion may cover what I’ll ultimately be an expert on, it doesn’t cover my lack of motivation to do the things I find uninteresting but need to do. That’s what I need to work on.

]]> By: Ed http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18064 Ed Mon, 14 Dec 2009 03:04:36 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18064 @<a href="#comment-18062" rel="nofollow">Shlea</a>: OK, thanks for the refresh! I'm super good at reading stuff and then forgetting that parts I want :) As far as taking challenges to the next step, for you, I think it will have to do with passion. For the specific examples I provided (compilers and networking) you weren't even in an environment to delve deeper into the subject and take on the next challenge. Plus, it's extremely difficult to even find the next challenge when you aren't absolutely and positively passionate about it! On the other hand, look what you were able to do with the Imagine Cup. Overall, once you find out what you are absolutely and positively passionate about and what you want to be completely awesome at, I don't think you'll have any trouble finding new challenges that will take you to the next level of knowledge. I am happy to hear that I get to use physical violence as a method of positive reinforcement. Hahah! @Shlea: OK, thanks for the refresh! I’m super good at reading stuff and then forgetting that parts I want :) As far as taking challenges to the next step, for you, I think it will have to do with passion. For the specific examples I provided (compilers and networking) you weren’t even in an environment to delve deeper into the subject and take on the next challenge. Plus, it’s extremely difficult to even find the next challenge when you aren’t absolutely and positively passionate about it! On the other hand, look what you were able to do with the Imagine Cup. Overall, once you find out what you are absolutely and positively passionate about and what you want to be completely awesome at, I don’t think you’ll have any trouble finding new challenges that will take you to the next level of knowledge.

I am happy to hear that I get to use physical violence as a method of positive reinforcement. Hahah!

]]> By: Ashley http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18062 Ashley Mon, 14 Dec 2009 02:28:43 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18062 @<a href="#comment-18058" rel="nofollow">Ed</a>: I begrudgingly admit you have a point with me continuing to take on challenges/will continue to succeed. Which is good, since I'm pretty sure that was the point of your comment. However, you have missed the point of my original post. You have focused on Phase 1 of the article, while I'm concerned with Phase 2. Phase 1 looks at whether children take on challenge; <em>Phase 2 states children who were praised for their efforts wanted to figure out how to do better</em>. So the idea is how MUCH challenge one chooses to take on, not new challenges or repeated challenges. When I said ask me to return, I meant continue in those areas. My concern isn't whether I take on challenges, it's whether I take that next step in those challenges. That's where I struggle. So I am smart. I don't have to study to get acceptable grades. I have done well overall. Now what about taking that next step to truly excel in a particular area. Now, this isn't something that keeps me up at night, but it is a question I find worth asking as I ponder what I want to be awesome at. Finally, finishing what I've started. I think it's interesting you brought that in. It does point to something I have been taught well. The Montessori Method stresses that once a child starts an activity, it is their responsibility to finish it. I remember when my kindergarten teacher first taught me that. My grade school teacher reinforced this, and my parents embraced this philosophy as well. For example, my brother started piano lessons. He was required to finish the set of lessons he had signed up for, and then he could make a decision about whether or not to continue. While this is something good, after steering the conversation back to whether I'm willing to figure out how to do better, I don't think my need to finish something out is relevant to the issue. Okay. Now that I've said my piece, I am really glad you point out that I'm willing to continue to take on challenges. That's a good positive thing I have going for me. When I'm getting down on myself, feel free to smack me with that. :) @Ed:
I begrudgingly admit you have a point with me continuing to take on challenges/will continue to succeed. Which is good, since I’m pretty sure that was the point of your comment.

However, you have missed the point of my original post. You have focused on Phase 1 of the article, while I’m concerned with Phase 2. Phase 1 looks at whether children take on challenge; Phase 2 states children who were praised for their efforts wanted to figure out how to do better. So the idea is how MUCH challenge one chooses to take on, not new challenges or repeated challenges. When I said ask me to return, I meant continue in those areas. My concern isn’t whether I take on challenges, it’s whether I take that next step in those challenges.

That’s where I struggle. So I am smart. I don’t have to study to get acceptable grades. I have done well overall. Now what about taking that next step to truly excel in a particular area. Now, this isn’t something that keeps me up at night, but it is a question I find worth asking as I ponder what I want to be awesome at.

Finally, finishing what I’ve started. I think it’s interesting you brought that in. It does point to something I have been taught well. The Montessori Method stresses that once a child starts an activity, it is their responsibility to finish it. I remember when my kindergarten teacher first taught me that. My grade school teacher reinforced this, and my parents embraced this philosophy as well. For example, my brother started piano lessons. He was required to finish the set of lessons he had signed up for, and then he could make a decision about whether or not to continue. While this is something good, after steering the conversation back to whether I’m willing to figure out how to do better, I don’t think my need to finish something out is relevant to the issue.

Okay. Now that I’ve said my piece, I am really glad you point out that I’m willing to continue to take on challenges. That’s a good positive thing I have going for me. When I’m getting down on myself, feel free to smack me with that. :)

]]> By: Ed http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18058 Ed Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:24:07 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18058 @<a href="#comment-18044" rel="nofollow">Shlea</a> The point isn't that you would return to those topics/challenges, even though it would probably easier a second time around, but that you decided to take the courses in the first place AND that you stuck with them for the whole semester. How many people dropped out of compilers in the first two weeks? NOT YOU. The idea isn't that you would repeat the same challenges, but that you will take on new ones. Every situation is different, so it's unlikely, as you get out into the real world, that you will be faced with two identical challenges. And now, based on your history of undertaking challenges, it is highly likely that you will continue to take on challenges and that you will continue to succeed. @Shlea The point isn’t that you would return to those topics/challenges, even though it would probably easier a second time around, but that you decided to take the courses in the first place AND that you stuck with them for the whole semester. How many people dropped out of compilers in the first two weeks? NOT YOU. The idea isn’t that you would repeat the same challenges, but that you will take on new ones. Every situation is different, so it’s unlikely, as you get out into the real world, that you will be faced with two identical challenges. And now, based on your history of undertaking challenges, it is highly likely that you will continue to take on challenges and that you will continue to succeed.

]]> By: James Ryan Moreau http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18055 James Ryan Moreau Sun, 13 Dec 2009 08:20:47 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18055 <span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Millennials and the Danger of Being Smart « OrganizeFISH http://tr.im/H7J8 (via @OrganizeFISH) #Brazen</span></span>

Millennials and the Danger of Being Smart « OrganizeFISH http://tr.im/H7J8 (via @OrganizeFISH) #Brazen

]]> By: Ashley http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18044 Ashley Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:26:19 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18044 @<a href="#comment-18040" rel="nofollow">Ed</a>: Yeah, I do to an extent. Now ask me to return to those classes and topics. @Ed:
Yeah, I do to an extent. Now ask me to return to those classes and topics.

]]> By: Ed http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18040 Ed Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:01:18 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18040 1. Hi Brenda! 2. I'm hanging my head in tip-calculator-shame too. 3. You are smart. And you are in the category of taking on the challenging (sometimes torturously so) next assignment. Let's look at some examples: compilers (yay for being the only two girls in the class!) and networking. I think that's enough examples for now. :) 1. Hi Brenda!
2. I’m hanging my head in tip-calculator-shame too.
3. You are smart. And you are in the category of taking on the challenging (sometimes torturously so) next assignment. Let’s look at some examples: compilers (yay for being the only two girls in the class!) and networking. I think that’s enough examples for now. :)

]]> By: Ashley http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18037 Ashley Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:54:38 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18037 @<a href="#comment-18034" rel="nofollow">Liz</a>: Yes! Another person that writes a ton! I am so not alone in this world! For serious on those multiplication tables. Time for a tip? Time to check my phone. And by phone, I mean the tip calculator. (My mom hangs her head in shame here.) When I spoke to my mom about this post (prior to publishing it), she said they viewed it as, "Yeah, you're smart. Now go work and do stuff with that." (Not a direct quote. You know it's a good thing I'm not a journalist.) I thought that was interesting. I wish I had that different category like you do for athletics. I'm afraid I killed it for programming, since that was my major. I still work harder at the programming things I'm doing outside of class. But that could simply be I'm more interested in my pet projects than projects set by teachers. Hmm. Now that I think about it, when I'm working out, I never feel like there's this unattainable goal. It's just something that if I continue to work at it, it'll happen. Now to figure out how to make up for this as an adult. I get so jealous of my sister sometimes. God, she works her butt off. I want that. @Liz:
Yes! Another person that writes a ton! I am so not alone in this world!

For serious on those multiplication tables. Time for a tip? Time to check my phone. And by phone, I mean the tip calculator. (My mom hangs her head in shame here.)

When I spoke to my mom about this post (prior to publishing it), she said they viewed it as, “Yeah, you’re smart. Now go work and do stuff with that.” (Not a direct quote. You know it’s a good thing I’m not a journalist.) I thought that was interesting.

I wish I had that different category like you do for athletics. I’m afraid I killed it for programming, since that was my major. I still work harder at the programming things I’m doing outside of class. But that could simply be I’m more interested in my pet projects than projects set by teachers.

Hmm. Now that I think about it, when I’m working out, I never feel like there’s this unattainable goal. It’s just something that if I continue to work at it, it’ll happen.

Now to figure out how to make up for this as an adult. I get so jealous of my sister sometimes. God, she works her butt off. I want that.

]]> By: Liz http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18034 Liz Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:36:55 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18034 Wow, that article describes my life PERFECTLY. I was always that kid who was told 'Wow, you must be really smart!' when I caught onto things very quickly and easily. It started with picking up piano on my own - 'Wow, your kid must be really smart!' and continued through everything - doing well on standardized tests wasn't seen as like 'wow, you worked really hard and read a lot', it was 'wow, you are really smart'. I thought of myself as the smart kid who got good grades and didn't really have to work hard for it. Then whenever something came up that I didn't get righ away, I would rather NOT do it than risk being bad at it - like multiplication, for example. Never learned those multiplication tables. I still can't multiply simple numbers in my head... it's so sad! And now it's biting me in the ass. The ass-biting started late in high school when I decided to take on more work and really couldn't get by just on smarts. I needed to work harder and learn from mistakes, but I wasn't used to making mistakes and was terrified of failing and nullifying my position as the smart kid. Then I got a lot of anxiety about 'wow, maybe I'm not smart after all...' which created some kind of downward spiral of low self-esteem in academics. Then of course not getting into college was a fatal blow. I don't think I ever learned to really study, because most of the time things came easy, but in contrast to not studying, the prospect of failure is still unacceptable. It's dumb. On the other hand, I've never been naturally gifted at athletics. When I started out on the swim team I was in the slow, semi-retarded kid lane and was praised for my work ethic when I moved up. Same with running. Started out in the back of the pack and moved up. That created positive reinforcement for hard work, and I just kept getting better and better. I've never felt discouraged with a failure to reach a certain goal in running - just concerned about how I can tweak my training, eating, sleep habits, race strategy, etc. so that I can run faster in the next race. It's so different. Anyway - I really like that article! For real, I wish I had been work ethic praised as a kid. Wow, that article describes my life PERFECTLY. I was always that kid who was told ‘Wow, you must be really smart!’ when I caught onto things very quickly and easily. It started with picking up piano on my own – ‘Wow, your kid must be really smart!’ and continued through everything – doing well on standardized tests wasn’t seen as like ‘wow, you worked really hard and read a lot’, it was ‘wow, you are really smart’. I thought of myself as the smart kid who got good grades and didn’t really have to work hard for it. Then whenever something came up that I didn’t get righ away, I would rather NOT do it than risk being bad at it – like multiplication, for example. Never learned those multiplication tables. I still can’t multiply simple numbers in my head… it’s so sad!

And now it’s biting me in the ass. The ass-biting started late in high school when I decided to take on more work and really couldn’t get by just on smarts. I needed to work harder and learn from mistakes, but I wasn’t used to making mistakes and was terrified of failing and nullifying my position as the smart kid. Then I got a lot of anxiety about ‘wow, maybe I’m not smart after all…’ which created some kind of downward spiral of low self-esteem in academics. Then of course not getting into college was a fatal blow. I don’t think I ever learned to really study, because most of the time things came easy, but in contrast to not studying, the prospect of failure is still unacceptable. It’s dumb.

On the other hand, I’ve never been naturally gifted at athletics. When I started out on the swim team I was in the slow, semi-retarded kid lane and was praised for my work ethic when I moved up. Same with running. Started out in the back of the pack and moved up. That created positive reinforcement for hard work, and I just kept getting better and better. I’ve never felt discouraged with a failure to reach a certain goal in running – just concerned about how I can tweak my training, eating, sleep habits, race strategy, etc. so that I can run faster in the next race. It’s so different.

Anyway – I really like that article! For real, I wish I had been work ethic praised as a kid.

]]> By: Ashley http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179/comment-page-1#comment-18032 Ashley Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:59:26 +0000 http://organizefish.com/blog/archives/179#comment-18032 @<a href="#comment-18027" rel="nofollow">Mom</a>: Hey, this way all my friends who get ridiculously long emails from me can see why. :) Though, did you have to bring up the middle school/science fair incident? I still get mad about it. It was an application and other kids seriously turned it in with just their name and the name of their project on it. Ugh. But, hey, I didn't have to do the science fair that year! Hehe. See! You know things I don't realize! "...to the point I don't believe she ever really learned to study." Though, ouch. Damn it being true. I suppose that's why I feel I learn more when it's "on the job". This is unfortunate as it makes for slow ramping up ahead of time. @Mom:
Hey, this way all my friends who get ridiculously long emails from me can see why. :)

Though, did you have to bring up the middle school/science fair incident? I still get mad about it. It was an application and other kids seriously turned it in with just their name and the name of their project on it. Ugh.

But, hey, I didn’t have to do the science fair that year! Hehe.

See! You know things I don’t realize! “…to the point I don’t believe she ever really learned to study.” Though, ouch. Damn it being true. I suppose that’s why I feel I learn more when it’s “on the job”. This is unfortunate as it makes for slow ramping up ahead of time.

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